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Posted: Apr 12, 2008 1:34 am

# 1

Jill V. -S.T.A.R.S.

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This is completely appalling... The Orphan Works Bill

Listen here or Read here

Sign the petition

Something seriously needs to be done about this. I'm not about to let 8 years of hardwork and practice go down the drain by some bill telling me that I don't own my own drawings. I'm spending thousands of dollars for schooling just in this field and I don't want my future career in danger because of this ridiculous bill.

This applies to any type of artist not just painters or illustrators. Authors, directors, photographers, sculptors. This needs to be fought.

Last edited by Jill V. -S.T.A.R.S. on Apr 12, 2008 1:59 am. Total edits: 2.

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Posted: Apr 12, 2008 5:57 am

# 2

arkillian

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What does this mean? If you're not a registered artist, then someone can sell your art? WTF? Why are they doing this bill? That makes no sense. Is this USA only?

<edit> Just listened to the interview (OMG- it was looooong) and it sounds like a totally INSANE idea. I can't even begin to describe how stupid it sounds to me. T.T There are some iddiots in this world if they can make stealing art LEGAL

Last edited by arkillian on Apr 12, 2008 6:49 am. Total edits: 1.

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Posted: Apr 12, 2008 3:10 pm

# 3

BogusRed

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There's another thread about this as well:

http://www.paperdemon.com/forums/viewtopic.php/2316.html

First off, I think the whole idea behind this bill is frighting. However, I'm not sure we are getting the full facts. Someone else sent me a link to this article at AWN written by Mark Simon. The DA journal that you sent us quotes passages from Simon's article. Simon makes it sound like every work you create that isn't registered with the US copyright office is free for the taking. But I'm not sure this is entirely true.

According to this article written in April '06 at Photo District News, the bill would make "un-credited visual images" free for anyone to take. Which means, if your work IS credited (ie via watermark with your name and/or email address) then your work should be safe.

Photography associations, fearful that an orphan works bill could make un-credited visual images essentially free for the taking, have campaigned vigorously against it. Getty Images and Corbis, normally fierce competitors, banded together to hire a lobbyist, Steven Metalitz, to fight the proposal, according to Nancy Wolff, attorney for the Picture Archive Council of America (PACA).

However, this is referencing the older version of the bill. I don't know if the new version is still the same with regard to uncredited works. But according to this article at Illustrators Partnership, the new bill would mean we all need to submit our works to the copyright office and have them placed in a repository. Then when someone finds an image and wants to use it they search the database and it will tell you if the work has an owner or not. However, most people don't register their work with the copyright office. Which means if someone found an art piece by you on the net and searched the database to see if it was registered and it didn't come up, then they could use it legally. If you sued them, they could just quote this bill.

Thus far through my internet research I have not found any exact copy of this bill or what it says. So all we really have to go on is rumor. Right now I'm going to do more research on it and see if I can find this supposed bill because there's a part of me that thinks this doesn't exist or that we aren't getting the full truth about it.

If it is as bad as people say it is, I serously doubt it would pass. The US economy is far too reliant on its entertainment business to let something like this go. Especially California. That doesn't mean we should just sit idly by. I think we should figure out the facts and contact our representatives. As for those petitions floating around, don't bother with the ones like on DA that ask for your DA username. That means nothing and a congressman isn't going to take it seriously. A real petition asks for your legal name, address, and signature.

If you happen to find any cold hard facts about this bill, please post the links here.

btw, changing the name of this topic to something more informative.

EDIT:

Arkillian, the ARTISTS aren't registered, each work that is created has to be registered with the US copyright. As the law stands now, your work is copyrighted to you as soon as you create it. But this new law would require you to register your work in order for it to be protected. And some say, even then it may not be protected.

Last edited by BogusRed on Apr 12, 2008 3:13 pm. Total edits: 1.

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Posted: Apr 12, 2008 7:21 pm

# 4

pazazz

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This is being blown way out of proportion.  The copyright laws as we understand them will not change.  Orphan work, is work that one can not find the artist after serious attempts were made to find them.  Most legit organizations would not  want to take a chance, even it they could not find the artist, since they don"t want to be sued.  The basic copyright laws are not changing is my understanding, and there is more reliable information on snovers journal over at ygallery.  I would not get too concerned at this point and not want anyone to panic over something like this.

Posted: Apr 13, 2008 1:50 am

# 5

puayen

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I haven't read all the articles out there and I certainly don't understand the (c) laws in full, but the following are just what I think:

The new bill is probly suggested on certain valid ground (tho whether it is entirely valid is another story). I rather think it doesn't apply to us artists so much (as most of the artworks we do are highly personalized [with our own characters etc] and are not highly adaptable to other uses) as to photographers. If the publisher of an education textbook found a perfect photo on Google, but cannot locate the original photographer (as is often the case), then the process of finding the creator becomes very costly and tedious (altho, yes, the publisher should probly hands-off the photo).

I dunno, I rather think the basic rules should be revised to: 1) works whose creators cannot be located and which are not registered as free stock cannot be use for any purposes that involve the direct trasactions of purchasing-power (i.e.money). 2) the above works may also not be used in any medium with a permanant form except where printed on paper not excedding A3 in size for highly personal usages (i.e. cannot be tatooed, make into tiles, T-shirts etc, but can simply be printed for personal keepsake or used in electronics form e.g. for a powerpoint etc).

Posted: Apr 14, 2008 8:42 am

# 6

BogusRed

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I read Snover's article and it's very informative. I suggest everyone concerned about this take a look at it:

http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/journal/snover/130570/

The bill doesn't exist. You can check for it yourself here. Do a keyword search for 'orphan':
http://thomas.loc.gov/bss/110search.html

 

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Posted: Apr 14, 2008 10:50 am

# 7

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 Thanks for bringing this to my attention.  I had no idea...  

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Posted: Apr 14, 2008 10:00 pm

# 8

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Oh god... the panic I thought would not reach here...

there is NOTHING to panic over people. It's a bunch of fear mongering hogwash. Trust me nothing is going to happen to your art. This is nothing to get all up in arms over, read ALL available information before you sign anything or jump to panicky conclusions please. Don't base your fear on one article meant to frighten you. I see bogus linked to snovers rebuttal, it is far more researched and informative and says it all in simple English.

I hate, hate... HATE inflamatory articles like this, it scares everyone needlessly.

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Posted: Apr 14, 2008 10:53 pm

# 9

Sliverbane

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As I kept gettin more info about it a small voice in the back of my head was saying:

I know companies like to screw people for a buck - but this kinda bill [the way it's outlined in the guys article]  would cause such a huge backlash it wouldn't even be funny! 

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Posted: Apr 15, 2008 8:22 pm

# 10

BogusRed

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On Apr 14, 2008 10:00 pm, fablespinner said:

Oh god... the panic I thought would not reach here...

there is NOTHING to panic over people. It's a bunch of fear mongering hogwash. Trust me nothing is going to happen to your art. This is nothing to get all up in arms over, read ALL available information before you sign anything or jump to panicky conclusions please. Don't base your fear on one article meant to frighten you. I see bogus linked to snovers rebuttal, it is far more researched and informative and says it all in simple English.

I hate, hate... HATE inflamatory articles like this, it scares everyone needlessly.

The more I think about this, the more I get angry. It is my opinion that Mark Simon is trying to push some sort of agenda. This article reached people all over the online art community. An alumni from my school sent me a link to Simon's article and one of my coworkers also heard about it. This whole thing makes me sick.

By the way, there actually was a bill that went through congress in 2006 relating to orphaned works, H.R.5439, and I think Simon referenced. He claimed it was shot down and that it was going through a revision to go before congress again. Simon's description of it is a complete distortion. And there is no revision to HR 5439.

It's pretty obvious to me that Simon knows he's manipulating the truth and he's trying to gather a following of cool aid drinkers.

This is such bull. God I'm so pissed at this.

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Posted: Apr 15, 2008 10:29 pm

# 11

fablespinner

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On Apr 15, 2008 8:22 pm, BogusRed said:

The more I think about this, the more I get angry. It is my opinion that Mark Simon is trying to push some sort of agenda. This article reached people all over the online art community. An alumni from my school sent me a link to Simon's article and one of my coworkers also heard about it. This whole thing makes me sick.

By the way, there actually was a bill that went through congress in 2006 relating to orphaned works, H.R.5439, and I think Simon referenced. He claimed it was shot down and that it was going through a revision to go before congress again. Simon's description of it is a complete distortion. And there is no revision to HR 5439.

It's pretty obvious to me that Simon knows he's manipulating the truth and he's trying to gather a following of cool aid drinkers.

This is such bull. God I'm so pissed at this.

Precisely, one article that was poorly researched and worded in such a way to insight mass hysteria makes me very angry. Simon should have his art shoved up his lynch mob inciting ass.

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Posted: Apr 16, 2008 9:39 am

# 12

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So, it's nothing to worry about then? [emoticon] That's good.

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Posted: May 9, 2008 11:16 am

# 13

BogusRed

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 Ok I hate to stir up panic but it looks like the bill does exist and is now going through congress. However, I still think the articles surrounding this are distorting what the bill is about. There is a proposal to start a database archive of copyrighted works (which to me sounds like a good idea in general) and there are proposed changes to legislation concerning orphaned works. It was introduced in the House in April.

To see the bill for yourself, click on Text of Legislation from this page.

From what I gather reading the text of the bill, its basically trying to make it easier for people to legally use orphaned works. An orphaned work is a work which was published without a name or there is no record of who created the work or the artist/copyright holder cannot be found. If you watermark your artwork with your name and/or website address you have nothing to worry about. You should be watermarking your work anyway because there are a lot of art thieves out there.

There was talk about some sort of mysterious database and if your artwork wasn't in that database, your work was not protected. The database proposal is real, but that doesn't mean your work isn't protected. See Section 514 (b) (1) (A) (i):

`(i) proves by a preponderance of the evidence that before the infringement began, the infringer, a person acting on behalf of the infringer, or any person jointly and severally liable with the infringer for the infringement--

`(I) performed and documented a qualifying search, in good faith, for the owner of the infringed copyright; and

`(II) was unable to locate the owner of the infringed copyright;

 

There's nothing in there saying you have to search the copyright database. What it does say is you need to do a "qualifying search" which is described in Sec 514 (b) (2) (A):


`(2) REQUIREMENTS FOR SEARCHES-
`(A) REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFYING SEARCHES-
`(i) IN GENERAL- For purposes of paragraph (1)(A)(i)(I), a search is qualifying if the infringer undertakes a diligent effort to locate the owner of the infringed copyright.
`(ii) DETERMINATION OF DILIGENT EFFORT- In determining whether a search is diligent under this subparagraph, a court shall consider whether--
`(I) the actions taken in performing that search are reasonable and appropriate under the facts relevant to that search, including whether the infringer took actions based on facts uncovered by the search itself;
`(II) the infringer employed the applicable best practices maintained by the Register of Copyrights under subparagraph (B); and
`(III) the infringer performed the search before using the work and at a time that was reasonably proximate to the commencement of the infringement.
`(iii) LACK OF IDENTIFYING INFORMATION- The fact that a particular copy or phonorecord lacks identifying information pertaining to the owner of the infringed copyright is not sufficient to meet the conditions under paragraph (1)(A)(i)(I).
 

Again, nothing in there saying you have to search the governments database. It just means a search which I asume means though any public database such as sites on the internet.

Further down it says that the Copyright department will determine what the best practices for performing this search are. This means that this supposed bad guy who wrote this article is NOT going to be the one defining what an appropriate search for a copyright owner is. The copyright office will. So really, there is nothing wrong with this bill except that it may be a little vague in areas.

Honestly, from what I've read in this bill, it doesn't look bad at all. I think the idea of creating a publicly available database of copyright information is a fantastic idea.

Last edited by BogusRed on May 9, 2008 11:35 am. Total edits: 4.

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Posted: May 9, 2008 3:24 pm

# 14

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Public database of copyrighted material? Okies. Dun know what that'd do, but as long as it's not the apocolypse for artwork and literature that all this hype was initially about, I don't mind. 8D

Posted: May 9, 2008 5:13 pm

# 15

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 I found this fantastic article which talks more about the orphaned works bill and how Simon is misrepresenting it for those interested.
6 Misconceptions about Orphaned Works

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