Melancholy Morning

BogusRed

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In the past two days, two members have told me they are leaving because they aren't happy with the services here at Paper Demon. Of course I'm going to take it personally and be upset by it... I don't know what to do. I've been busting my butt at school trying to do well in my classes and try and find time to make improvements to PD. I thought that it was clear that if you don't like something about PD, tell me and I'll try to make it right. Don't just up and leave.

One member that is leaving is leaving because he/she isn't receiving enough feedback. For this I think I have a solution. I came up with an idea a while back for something called "The Crit Wall." A lot of times we don't know what the artist wants. We don't know if they want a serious critique or if they want cheerleading comments. So often times a lot of us will just say the nice things and not things that need improvements. So I'm going to further develop the crit wall idea. People will be able to designate what kind of critique they want on their artwork. And artwork that is designated as wanting serious critique will go in a special area designated as "The Crit Wall." I will see if I can get this programmed and up and running this weekend.

I'm not just saddened by this, I'm mad too. Most of you guys know that this site was built from the ground up by me. Hand coded. All from scratch. Hundreds of hours of programming. And when a new feature is requested, I try my best to deliver it. And I try and make the site look good, too, unlike a lot of other sites *cough mediaminer cough fanart-central cough*. And when there's a problem I try and fix it.

Darn it am I not working hard enough? I want Paper Demon to be the BEST art site out there. What can be done to get it there?

Last edited by BogusRed on Nov 9, 2005 11:38 am. Total edits: 1.

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MoonDemon

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Don't let it get you down BR, I'm a MM member and I have to say I like your site a heck of a lot better!! There's no pleasing everyone so they can kiss your nono word, LOL. You are FABULOUS!!!

All Hail BougusRed!!!

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THIS TOO SHALL PASS!!!

EvilBunnySlippers

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Susie, this is the best art site out there by FAR. I don't even post on any of the other art sites I've been to since I found your site because when compared to your site, they are nothing. This site has a sense of community...something I have not found on any other site.

You are constantly working trying to improve the site and come up with new ideas for making the site better. You are always open for suggestions from other people and are willing to hear them out.

There will always be people out there who will come to your site and feel that it is not up to their standards. They might misinterpret the rules, have erroneous expectations, or generally misunderstand what the site it about. It has nothing to do with how hard you work, there are always going to be these kinds of complaints and situations.

You can never please everybody; it is impossible. So, don’t let it get you down. Just put your duck feathers on and let it all roll off your back.

The Crit Wall sounds like a great idea!

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karanakaou

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I think it's something that's going to increase with the increase of the site,

People who don't necessarily make themselves known that expect alot out of a site of this size, feel neglected, and decide to get angry about it. There has to be two sides of this relationship though...

In any case, you've done a spectacular job Susie, as EBS has done, this is the only art website I'm on because there's just no other like it out there on the web. You've created quite the haven for us all, and it's up to we the members to use it constructively.

As for the 'crit wall' idea, I'm all over it! [smiley] I think it's a great alternative to what we have now, and more constructive than the rating system. And you know we're all here to help if you need it.

Thanks Susie for such a wonderful site!

~Heidi

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Minimaid

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As everyone else is saying, don't let it get you down!

As gallery sites grow, more people will come over expecting to get a TON of comments right away. From my experience, that's not what happens. You find a site, you post, you look at the other members' work and post comments there, and you build your popularity through helping other people (in other words, in adding to their popularity). You get what you give, and that's just how it goes. Lots of people just don't GET that.

Admittedly, I post at other sites, but PD is still my favourite of them, and I post absolutely everything here that I can. I also, when I have the chance, try to give back everything I can to the community you've created. Your work always has and always will please the people on the site and in the community that matter - and the amount of those 'people who matter' is growing every day due to your perseverence and hard work, Susie.

The Crit Wall sounds great! Unfortunately, ALL of my work would go there, and I might crowd it... *blush*

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BogusRed

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Thanks for your support you guys. It really means a lot to me. Sometimes I just need someone to say "great job" now and then. As for the crit wall idea, I will try to implement this ASAP. I have a lot of homework tonight but i'll see if I can squeeze in some time to add it. I'm thinking of something like this for the choices of critique:

Crit Wall
Give me a few tips but go easy on me
Postive comments only
No comments

How does that sound? So like you can even designate that you don't want any comments at all if you want. Can you guys think of a shorter name for the second one? It doesn't matter. We can change it later.

Last edited by BogusRed on Nov 9, 2005 5:12 pm. Total edits: 1.

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Lady Anime79

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Susie, Susie, Susie... hun, I really wouldn't let it get you down so much. There are always going to be people out there who expect too much. And I know you want this to be the best site out there and in my opinion it is. But unfortunately, some people just can't be pleased. You do so very much for us here at PaperDemon. You bust your butt to make us all have a great time here. You gave us a beautiful site to house our art and our writing. And the opportunity to meet people and make new friends with our common interests. I understand that you are feeling terrible about this situation. And it saddens me that those members have to whine and complain about the injustice they have received by not getting something they wanted or felt they deserved. Please don't second guess yourself or your site Susie. You have all of us right behind you. We KNOW how much you have devoted to this site...to US and we are so very grateful. I love PaperDemon. I am always amazed at how far it has come. You are doing such a great job. Just remember all that you have done instead of all that people WANT you to do. *huggles*

P.S. For the second part of the Crit wall, how about something short and sweet like "Positive Pointers" or something? Just a suggestion. Don't ask. I am under the influence of cold medicine. [smiley]

Last edited by Lady Anime79 on Nov 9, 2005 7:48 pm. Total edits: 1.

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BamboozledByAnime

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[smiley] Sorry to hear that Susie :/ But it's true what they say, you can't please everyone, BUT you can sure as heck please as many as you can. I for one like this site because it provides a sense of community with everyone here, all the artists are friendly with one another, and the comments are all very nice, especially the critques from people. I think you've done a fantastic job thus far, and should keep up what you're doing. This site deffinately has what it takes to be come number 1, but you just have to keep stacking on the blocks, and building that tower to reach number one [smiley] Even if you suffer some minor cracks and creeks here and there, the builder finds a way around them, and makes repairs, and keeps on working till the job gets done hehe.

And I also think the critique wall would be an excellent choice, this will enable the artists to gain what they really want, instead of just waiting for the comment or crituque to roll in, they can request it, making it much easier for them to get what they need out of their submision hehe [smiley] . So go right on and make that new feature, it should do a great service I think for the site, as well as the artists .

And for the second part hmm..how about:

Helpful tips

Just a tip

Friendly points

Any of those? [smiley]

Last edited by BamboozledByAnime on Nov 9, 2005 8:41 pm. Total edits: 1.

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TennisPirate

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I don't know why anyone would ever want to leave this site! Because you are constantly putting so much effort into it, it is far better than anything else I've seen so far! Everything is very specific, and you can do just about whatever you want to!

On Nov 9, 2005 11:28 am, BogusRed said:

So I'm going to further develop the crit wall idea. People will be able to designate what kind of critique they want on their artwork.

I love this idea, but would it only be for artwork? You should let writers choose, too. Just a thought.

I think the "Give me a few tips, but go easy on me" category could be shrunk into, "Constructive criticism," or you could give them all funky names, like:

~ RAW

~ Rare

~ Medium-well

~ Blackened

Of course, then you would probably need to clarify exactly what each category means... not everyone is a meathead (har har har) like me.

Anyway. I also wanted to let you know that I fled here from fanfiction.net because of crazy-strict rules (like you can't post in script, and you can't reply to your reviews). Their site is really difficult to navigate, too, and there're all kinds of technical glitches. It's pretty poorly done, and the administrators are all sticks-in-the-mud. I'm so glad I found PaperDemon when I did. You're doing a terrific job! Never feel discouraged by losers who are too low to recognize sheer talent. I could never put something like this together in a million years, and I'm sure the people who criticize your efforts couldn't in a billion. This is everything I could ask for, and I'm sure the same goes for nigh on everyone else! Keep up the good work, PLEASE!!!

[smiley]

- TP

Last edited by TennisPirate on Nov 9, 2005 9:07 pm. Total edits: 2.

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EvilBunnySlippers

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A few names for the second one could be "Gentle criticism", "Gentle suggestions", "Moderate criticism", "Moderate suggestions", "Mild criticism", "Mild suggestions".

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BogusRed

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Thanks for the support guys! I really want to compete with the big guys now like Mediaminer. We are really geting there as far as features. we just need the membership size. And I hope we can make this the most kick-butt site around!

As for the crit wall, all good ideas. I like the "Positive Pointers" thing but now it is sounding too much like the positive comments only thing. so maybe change the third one to something like "enthusiastic comments" or something. I also like TP's idea of enabling the feature for writing also. I'm sure authors would like the feature too.

"Constructive criticism" wouldn't work for the positive thing because constructive criticism is exactly what the crit wall is. I really like your idea of giving them funky names, TP. Maybe not those funky names but something else that's kind of different and funny. Something like "Roast me" for the first level (crit wall)? Because roasting someone is kind of like being honest and saying all the bad and good stuff. Perhaps something like "Candy Coated" for the second level (give me a few tips, but go easy on me). "Chocolate Mousse" for the third... well that's kind of stupid.... "Cup Cake?" "Cheerleader" I dunno. SOmething that means that you want only "Good job" type comments but that doesn't sound like a bad thing. "Look but don't touch" for the last one (no comments).
So it might look like this:

Roast Me - crit wall. be honest and give constructive criticism
Candy Coated - give me some constructive crit but not a lot. go easy on me.
High Fives - only tell me the good things. i want encouragement and support.
Look But Don't Touch - I don't want comments on this artwork.

And I'm sure we will ALL have artwork and writing that will fall into each of these. I know that not all of my work will be in "Roast Me." I'm going to want to put some in the "High Fives" section. And for all of my old artwork, I'll want to put it in "Look But Don't Touch."

How do these names sound? Can you guys come up with something even more interesting?

Last edited by BogusRed on Nov 9, 2005 11:54 pm. Total edits: 1.

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rasilverstorm

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Susie, hun for me your site is by FAR better then Mediaminer... Really I can find everthing I need here!

The crit wall you thought up is fantastic! Really don't worry to much... and as for the leavers... well they just don't deserve a good site like this!

*huggles* Go on hun! everthing here is cool and get's better by the day!! SO KEEP IT UP!!!

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MoonDemon

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Roast Me - crit wall. be honest and give constructive criticism
Candy Coated - give me some constructive crit but not a lot. go easy on me.
High Fives - only tell me the good things. i want encouragement and support.
Look But Don't Touch - I don't want comments on this artwork.

[smiley] I like these ones Susie, just reading them puts a happy smile on my face

Last edited by MoonDemon on Nov 10, 2005 7:24 am. Total edits: 1.

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THIS TOO SHALL PASS!!!

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On Nov 9, 2005 9:03 pm Tennis Pirate said:

I don't know why anyone would ever want to leave this site! Because you are constantly putting so much effort into it, it is far better than anything else I've seen so far! Everything is very specific, and you can do just about whatever you want to!

I totally agree. I have grown used to this site and I don't see myself leaving anytime soon. I don't understand why anyone would want to leave. I also think it's the best site I have seen to put artwork and writing. I like the sense of community here, something I haven't seen on other sites for example the other one I'm in, the Inuyasha world gallery. It's really easy to navigate, and much prettier too.
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fablespinner

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Not enough feedback... happens EVERYWHERE not just paper demon.

NO ONE gets the amount of feedback they want. It's a cold hard fact of life and if the person leaving thinks it'll get better somewhere else they are SADLY mistaken.

We all have peices that have zero feedback, many of them in fact.

Suck it up kiddo, it sucks I know, we all want more.

Don't let people like that get you down Susie... they have nowhere else to go either, magic feedback just does not happen. Anywhere.

We all want a ton, 9 times out of 10 we all get NONE.

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Saiyangirl4ever

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Please,read this!!!!!!!!Who is the one who saddened Susie?!!!Eh? I`ll show you how to sadden such a wonderful person!!!*takes a frying pan and waits for stupid people to come out*Oh,so now you`re scared eh?Well you should be!!!!!!!Because I`m very upset with these people who are bringing down you, Susie!!!!!!

O.K. when I saw your post I almost wanted to cry,`cause these people are just so supid!!! When I first came here I was shocked.I have never seen such a great site with so much great people and so much love! I couldn`t believe that there was a place like this! All this site was pulsing with energy and life!!! I saw you guys talking about your problems,helping eachother to solve them.I saw you comment artworks and make other people happy with nice words and new suggestions.I saw you laugh together and cheer up the sad or depressed ones.I was..........happy.I couldn`t believe that in this usually dark,violent world was a place filled with laugh,smiles and most important LOVE. I felt.......happy,I felt .....loved! And it was only because of you,Susie! I saw so much love and hard work in every detail,in every word you wrote!And the most important thing is that you`ve done all that to make all these people happy!You made home for all these incredible people,who are here now sharing their feelings,talking and laughing together,supporting and helping eachother!You`ve built home for the people who love art,Anime and humanity!And this home became almost a part of our lifes`,Susie!And all this family is now supporting you and all the sad people,`cause were here!We love you,Susie!We always support you Susie!We thank you Susie,for making us happy! I think that more than makes up those two stupid people who didn`t appreciate you,your hard work and love that you`ve put in this site! I think we all know,that this site is and will be the BEST site ever!We love you Susie and we will always be here!All my love to you! [smiley] Mwah!You are an amazing girl indeed!Stay that way!

I want to thank you all for being so amazing,loving,caring and sensitive!

I love you guys as much as this site and my life!All my heart to Ya all!Mwah!*hugs all the people in PD*

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There is no way to happiness.Happiness is the way. [smiley]

~*~Thich Nhat Hanh~*~

Stealth Nerd

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Susie, that makes me mad for you Some people just won't be happy about anything; so let them go back to stinking MediaMiner or Fanart Central or Otaku.com or deviant.art.... none of which deliver the way Paper Demon does. Holy cow, sometimes I just wanna slap people. What's the matter with them? You've got the most original, well-designed and thought-out fanart site anywhere on the worldwideweb, not to mention it's your brainchild and labor of love.

I do think the CritWall is a good idea... But, still, you can't please everyone. Sheesh, people.

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MoonDemon

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Saiyangirl4ever has hit the heart of what I think most members feel about you and your site Susie. I couldn't put it any better and I don't believe anyone else could either!!!!!!!!!

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THIS TOO SHALL PASS!!!

Saiyangirl4ever

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Awwww...Thank you so much MoonDemon!You`re so nice to me! [smiley]

I`ve put all my heart in this reply and I hope everyone will be happier after reading this!!!Luv Ya hun! [smiley]

Last edited by Saiyangirl4ever on Nov 10, 2005 10:41 am. Total edits: 1.

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There is no way to happiness.Happiness is the way. [smiley]

~*~Thich Nhat Hanh~*~

Minimaid

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I do very much like your new suggestions for the Crit Wall, Susie. Admittedly, I will likely put most of my work in the top two categories.... And it will mean much more sorting of works. lol! I never knew how much I had on this site until I had to go through and put a bunch of them in your new 'realism' category. I think I have well over 50 pieces on this site, which is about twice as much as anywhere else.

Anyhow - So far your new thoughts sound good! Don't push yourself too hard, though, we don't want you burning out. Your schoolwork and personal life are still meant to be #1 - we don't want our star fading from exhaustion.

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Melancholy Morning

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