On Aug 8, 2007 9:29 pm, Nekoyoujo said:

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I do have an idea ,however: Blocking underage accounts and guests from viewing the Red Curtain side.[/quote]

What I feel I must add here is the problem of children lying about their age.  No, you can't control that, but simply banning minors will get the result of some of those thousands of children who every day lie about their age to view adult content.  That's not PD's fault, of course, but I felt I needed to mention that this will NOT keep minors from viewing the Red Curtain, only the honest ones.

[quote]

The only reason I have to allow shouta and loli is the to let all artists feel welcome ,because you already have an adult side for them to recide(?) in.[/quote]

Honestly, I am a member of 4 different art communities online.  The reason for this is because I can post different kinds of art on each site, due to their individual rules.  I don't think this is a bad thing, or something to complain about for my own sake.  It's just life.  Like Bogus said, no site is going to allow everything.  I take what I can get from here and there and then move elsewhere with the rest of my gallery.  That's life, that's the internet, and I don't see anything wrong with it, personally...

On Aug 9, 2007 5:19 am, Draith said:
[quote]

On Aug 8, 2007 9:29 pm, Nekoyoujo said:

[quote]

I do have an idea ,however: Blocking underage accounts and guests from viewing the Red Curtain side.[/quote]

What I feel I must add here is the problem of children lying about their age.  No, you can't control that, but simply banning minors will get the result of some of those thousands of children who every day lie about their age to view adult content.  That's not PD's fault, of course, but I felt I needed to mention that this will NOT keep minors from viewing the Red Curtain, only the honest ones.

[/quote]

You're right. I currently have no way of confirming that the birthdates members provide is accurate.

But I must mention that we do have another safe guard in place. If the computer has parental controls enabled on the computer, then access to the Red Curtain should be blocked regardless of whether they are logged in or not. We have something called ICRA tags that tells parental control software exactly what kind of content is in the Red Curtain so that the site can be blocked. So if parents do their part to install parental control software, we should be good.

On Aug 8, 2007 11:05 pm, BogusRed said:
[quote]

I disagree. I believe harm can come to the site if we allow these sorts of art. I think this type of work is tasteless and I don't want to see tasteless artwork in my gallery. And if I were to see the Red Curtain suddenly full of this type of artwork I would be severely depressed. I stand firm by my decision to not allow bestiality, necrophilia, and scat.

I'm a professional web designer working for an international web company. PaperDemon is my greatest achievement and because of that I've placed many screenshots of PD and explanations about the site in my portfolio. Naturally a prospective employer is going to check out PD and possibly the Red Curtain to see an example of my web development and web design abilities. If a prospective employer or even someone at my current company saw drawings of children having sex that could be the end of me.

Well here's one way to look at it. There's never going to be one website that allows absolutely everything on it. All sites have their own set of rules for their galleries. So for now you can continue to post your shota works on yGallery which is very welcoming for that genre of artwork.

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Well, I can understand that much. You can depress over your own site.

For professional reasons, i won't understand how that works, because wed design is one of my down falls past simple HTML.

I may be a web design n00b, but I understand that not all sites allow everything, and that's not what I except from PD, either.

I fight because I don't have a place for my loli ,too, though. It's not just about the shota. Really, i draw more women ,then men.

I understand ,though. *sets in defeat* -_-

Perhaps you can make your own website and advertise it in your signature. Sounds like the less heart breaking option. Other option is if we have a 'Appoved' Section where a picture can be submitted to Bogusred for approval to post, and get stapped with a little sticker if she's happy with it. That way, if you have shota she DOES approve of, then you can post it here. Like- a non regulation section. The art stays hidden untill it's approved.

Is this an ok idea Susie? I do feel for Nekoyoujo's situation. I'm pretty sure people would be ok with the if you approved it :)

When I posted I had no idea the debate had heated up so much. :blink:

Goodness!  Our community is still small and the issue of 'taste' can be handled directly by Susie and her Mods.  It's a good idea to define the rules so deviants don't take things across the line. When I was in Japan I saw A LOT of things that were right at the line for pedofilia. (By western standards, mind you) The argument that it attracts those who will cross the line is valid, but it appears to be very possible to control things.  For instance there are a buntch magzines you can subsribe to in Japan that feature young boys from 13 - 15.  It's a catalogue of boys interacting in daily activities with a 'fashion shoot' type photo spreads.  They're cute, pretty and wearing the latest fashions, sometimes they're playing soccor or just walking in a group on the street. They're not child actors or anything - they're pin ups - if you want to get techincal I was kinda astounded that such a thing existed.  'Woa, a book of cute young boys frolicing about Japan'.

The incest issue...hmm, well like Susie said:  Many fanfics put family members in naughty situations.  And I agree that this is were a reasonable person has to seperate fantasy from reality.  I got a lot of  flames on other art web sites about my Matrix Twin art.  Yes, the actors are brothers...but the characters are computer programs!  Get a grip. 

Something to note is that these concepts we're discussing are mostly rooted in Japanese culture - the 'shota' 'shounen-ai', yuri, lolita complex and such. (Well, most of it is)  And many of these concepts are taboo in the west.  Exlporing these things is a interesting experience for the artist - myself included.  (I have no comment on necrophelia and scat....ewww)

This brings to mind a scene from Haunted Junction where a teenage girl rips the pants of a little boy and wildly snaps photos of him.  That show was crazy(and funny) - but it certainly shows how the Japanese have tolerated the lolita complex and make fun of it.

I know I'm kinda late in this conversation - just had to get in my 2 cents.  :grin:

So...as necrophilia was brought up as one of the topics in art you won't allow, I have to ask this...

What counts as necro? And what would count as being 'ok'? I ask because, well...there's a lot to cover there that should be considered. If you count 'necro' as being anything containing a 'dead' character, not just a corpse...well, Angels to some are dead. Vampires are dead, zombies are VERY dead. What about ghosts? If what is a no no is one having sex with a corpse, then zombies SHOULD count, as they ARE rotting corpses. However, some would argue that they are the 'living dead', right alongside vampires. So specifics here would be a good idea, as well. With a list of 'no nos' and 'allowables'.

Like, if I drew an image of one of my characters from WoW having sex with one of my husband's characters, would it count as unnaceptable here as they are both from the Undead race? Or the ever popular Zomby raping a random character from the Resident Evil games. Personally, though I will view both, I count the zombies as being drastically different from the Undead. And vampires and angels are a whole other area of the 'dead but not dead' to me, as are ghosts. *shrugs* Just pointing it out, not saying any of it should be here, just that more detailed thought should be put into that one, too.

On Aug 10, 2007 1:21 pm, ayas-shadow said:
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What counts as necro? And what would count as being 'ok'? I ask because, well...there's a lot to cover there that should be considered.

[/quote]

My opinion on Necrophilia... Is that it would be defined as sexual interaction with a DEAD corpse... as in, the dead person cannot interact in the sexual actions because they are completely dead, unmoving, no life of any sort. 

That, to me, is the part that's wrong because basically, asside from really icky health reasons, that's rape of that person's body. Now, people can draw instances of rape, and honestly even then I've seen some that I'd call "art..." because the situation happens in reality, and that is that.  But Necro is something different, where even if given a "chance," the person is no longer capable of choosing an action. 

Vampires can move, interact, etc... even zombies which are technically walking, rotting corpses could then interact in the sexual situation.  That, to me, makes it not technically necrophilia.

I don't know what Bogus and her Mods think, but that's my thoughts on that. =)

lol And that, Draith is exactly why I brought it up! There are some of us that might have differing views from others. I know there are people that would say at the least Zombies count in Necro... So it definately needs to be thought out in detail with a lot of specifics give. ^-^ At least in relation to the 'living dead' or 'undead' factors. ^-^

On Aug 10, 2007 1:21 pm, ayas-shadow said:
[quote]

What counts as necro? And what would count as being 'ok'? I ask because, well...there's a lot to cover there that should be considered. If you count 'necro' as being anything containing a 'dead' character, not just a corpse...well, Angels to some are dead. Vampires are dead, zombies are VERY dead. What about ghosts? If what is a no no is one having sex with a corpse, then zombies SHOULD count, as they ARE rotting corpses. However, some would argue that they are the 'living dead', right alongside vampires. So specifics here would be a good idea, as well. With a list of 'no nos' and 'allowables'.

[/quote]

Wow these are things I didn't even consider. Thank you for bringing this up. I think Draith's comments about an unmoving corpse are dead on (haha excuse the pun). However, I think sex with a Zombie is pretty darn icky too. Vampires, angels, and ghosts I think are alright. But inanimate corpse sex is not allowed for sure. I'm undecided about zombies. Right now I'm thinking Zombies shouldn't be allowed.

On Aug 9, 2007 4:28 pm, arkillian said:
[quote]

Perhaps you can make your own website and advertise it in your signature. Sounds like the less heart breaking option. Other option is if we have a 'Appoved' Section where a picture can be submitted to Bogusred for approval to post, and get stapped with a little sticker if she's happy with it. That way, if you have shota she DOES approve of, then you can post it here. Like- a non regulation section. The art stays hidden untill it's approved.

Is this an ok idea Susie? I do feel for Nekoyoujo's situation. I'm pretty sure people would be ok with the if you approved it :)

[/quote]

How about my idea though? ^^; It'll solve alot of problems... :<