I totally hear you BR- Screen shots are ugly- my best friend (in the non net world!) does this and it annouys me- simply cause she has an ugly colour scheme and well- what wrong with SAVING the pic. You have to anyways :( If you need two pics at once, save them together. You don't need to see palettes or brag about programs or whatever reason peoples do this. Thanls for bringing this up Susie ^^ *huggles*

First off I am sorry to say I do not agree with you here.  People should have the right to post anything ANY WAY they want here on PD and/or RC because it is there art.  Sure the pantlets do take away from there art alittle, but it is also showing how they are doing there work and such.  And in some cases it may help people in that way because they can ask the artist how they are doing certain things and such with the program they are using.  Also it shows what kind of technique that person may being using.  So whatever happened to freedom of speech and freedom of the press here in America?  I believe that the artist here on Paper Demon and Red Curtain should be able to post any which way they want to. 

With all do respect,

Hikaru Natsume

I have to agree with Hikaru here, everyone has a right to post the way they want.  :)  Sorry, but I believe she is right.

Mirasa Loyd

I'm sorry you two, but if Susie says no, then she means no- She's the web mistress, and if she doesn't like it, then she shouldn't have to tolerate it. Besides, it is ugly. The only time I like to see a screen capture is when I am manipulating it. To be honest, the windows stuff dominates the picture and you don't get to see the art, and frankyl, you could be using paint and I wouldn't care. It's the ART we want here- not the program.

Also- as for feedom of speech and all the rest- People CAN comment on the pic asking how the artist does the pic. That's what I do. It not as if you can tell with a screen capture anyways. All that shows you really is what program you use and what colour scheme you have. Oh, and if you use a set of preset swatches. Seriously- I'd still be cool with this even if I didn't think Susie was doing the right thing and this has happened before. I don't agree with everything she does, but I do know that she isn't a beginner at this.

And it's her site in the end. She's just being really cool and letting us have a HUGE input into it :)

Axel X Sora is right in a certain way. But this is Susie's site, and she is allowed to have her own rules and sets and balances and so on. We have to respect that and do what she says. If she says no, then we have to deal with it.

:)  Woah, this got a little bit heated, hm?

Pictures can still be posted as Works-in-Progress.  I have a ton of them in my own gallery.  People interested can easily post a comment with their questions, or PM the artist - there is so issue there, that I can see?

This is a very very open website.  People should be happy with that, and not upset at what rules Susie -does- put up.  She is not outlawing WIPs...  And in my humble opinion, WIPs are actually easier to understand when you are looking at -just the picture-, and not a ton of boxes and palettes and whatnot.

Thanks for hearing me out, if you read this.  :)

On Jun 29, 2006 2:06 pm, Axel X Sora said:

First off I am sorry to say I do not agree with you here.  People should have the right to post anything ANY WAY they want here on PD and/or RC because it is there art.

So whatever happened to freedom of speech and freedom of the press here in America?

On Jun 29, 2006 2:10 pm, Vincent Valentine said:
[quote]I have to agree with Hikaru here, everyone has a right to post the way they want.  :)  Sorry, but I believe she is right.

Mirasa Loyd[/quote]

You can have your opinion and feel free to disagree with this rule. And I encourage the members here to voice their opinions on PD.

However, this website isn't within the public domain. It is privately owned. It is not  your right to post artwork here. It is your privilage. Same goes for DeviantArt, SheezyArt, YGallery, Elfwood, and every other art gallery website out there. I'm providing a service here and in order to enjoy the services here people need to follow the rules. If they don't, they lose their privilages to post their art. Using the whole "we have freedom of speech" or "we have the right" is not a valid argument on this topic because that only applies to places within the public domain.

If you'd like to have freedom of speech with your artwork on the web, feel free to find a web hosting company that doesn't have restrictions against adult content or similar restrictions (good luck). Or build your own server for hosting your work so that you aren't limited to your web hosting company's content restrictions.  Then build your own website and showcase your artwork the way you want to.

To clarify, this rule isn't about not allowing Works in progress. This is about the presentation of works in progress. WIPs are a major part of this website because this website is about growth. It's about growing as an artist or a writer. And if your artwork isn't presented well enough, then the viewer is too distracted by things like palletes and poorly photographed artwork that they can't properly analyse the artwork and provide meaningful feedback.

I'm not saying you can't do it on other websites. If you want to post screenshotted WIPs on DeviantArt, feel free to do so. Just don't do it here.

On Jun 29, 2006 6:58 pm, Minimaid said:
[quote]This is a very very open website.  People should be happy with that, and not upset at what rules Susie -does- put up.  She is not outlawing WIPs...  And in my humble opinion, WIPs are actually easier to understand when you are looking at -just the picture-, and not a ton of boxes and palettes and whatnot.

Thanks for hearing me out, if you read this.  :)
[/quote]

As Minimaid said, this site is pretty open. There are a lot of art websites that don't allow adult oriented content. This site is one of the few that does. So there may be things you don't like about the rules here but remember there are also a lot of things you CAN do here that you can't do else where.

On Jun 29, 2006 1:55 pm, arkillian said:
[quote]I totally hear you BR- Screen shots are ugly- my best friend (in the non net world!) does this and it annouys me- simply cause she has an ugly colour scheme and well- what wrong with SAVING the pic. You have to anyways :( If you need two pics at once, save them together. You don't need to see palettes or brag about programs or whatever reason peoples do this. Thanls for bringing this up Susie ^^ *huggles*
[/quote]

Thanks Arkillian. I knew I wasn't alone in this. But even if the colors aren't really bright, it's still distracting. I also think it's a statement about yourself instead of about your art. Like you are trying to say to the world "Look! I know photoshop!" instead of what it should be "Look at my artwork!"

On Jun 29, 2006 2:06 pm, Axel X Sora said:

Sure the pantlets do take away from there art alittle, but it is also showing how they are doing there work and such.  And in some cases it may help people in that way because they can ask the artist how they are doing certain things and such with the program they are using.  Also it shows what kind of technique that person may being using.

I stated in my first post that if the image is intended as a tutorial then it's fine. I can't see how displaying a screenshot of your artwork is useful NOT in the context of a tutorial other then perhaps seeing how many layers the artist uses and what is on each layer. But if the artist wants to give out that information, they can take a separate screen shot of just the layers pallete or their whole screen and post it in their Image Folio and then link to it from their artwork description, rather than including the layer's pallete and other photoshop content as part of the artwork submission.

Okay, I am going to have to clear up a few things about the concept of “Freedom of Speech”.  It makes me upset when people use this term while having no earthly idea of what they are talking about.  So, without further adieu, here is a crash course on Free Speech, as it exists in the United States.

Freedom of Speech is guaranteed to each citizen of the United States under the 1^st Amendment to the Constitution, which also includes freedom of the press, freedom of the people to peacefully assemble, freedom to worship, and the freedom to petition the government for redress of grievances.  The purpose of guaranteeing freedom of speech to United States citizens in the Constitution was to protect people from the GOVERNMENT preventing people from making their opinions known and expressing themselves for fear of government retaliation.

In the PRIVATE SECTOR, freedom of speech does NOT exist!  Can you please explain to me where it says in the Constitution that people have the right to force privately owned newspapers, websites, and other media outlets to publish their work? No, because it is simply not there.  The Freedom of Speech guarantee in the 1^st Amendment does not guarantee the right to a venue for expression and it does not guarantee the right to be listened to.  It ONLY guarantees that citizens of the United States shall not be punished by the government for expressing their opinions, beliefs, etc. (unless you happen to be expressing an opinion that can directly lead to an infringement upon someone else’s rights, such as advocating the murder of another individual.  Contrary to popular belief the 1^st Amendment is not absolute and there are exceptions when the rights of others are infringed upon)

If you want to stand on a street corner and pass out your pamphlets, if you want to create and maintain your own website, or if you want to start your own newspaper to express yourself, you have every right to do so.  However, I am afraid you do not have the right to force other people to accept your opinions, beliefs, or artwork because this infringes on the rights of others to choose not to accept what you are offering.

Susie is the creator/owner of this site and as such she has full discretion regarding what she will allow or will not allow to be included in the content of her website.

 On Jun 29, 2006 2:06 pm, Axel X Sora said:
[quote]

People should have the right to post anything ANY WAY they want here on PD and/or RC because it is there art.  So whatever happened to freedom of speech and freedom of the press here in America?  I believe that the artist here on Paper Demon and Red Curtain should be able to post any which way they want to.

[/quote]

 

On Jun 29, 2006 2:10 pm, Vincent Valentine said:
[quote]

I have to agree with Hikaru here, everyone has a right to post the way they want.  :)  Sorry, but I believe she is right.

Mirasa Loyd

[/quote]

Yes, it is THEIR art just as this site is SUSIE’s site.  People have a right to decide where they choose to publish their art just as Susie has a right to make rules and regulations for people to follow on HER website.  People have the right to choose what to do with their own property.  If people do not agree to the rules and regulations of a certain site they have the option of exercising their FREEDOM of choosing not to post on said site, and they have the FREEDOM to publish their work on another site where they agree to the terms.

I think what has happened here is that people believe in the concept of “Freedom of Speech.” However, they do not know the exact meaning of the concept and when and how it is to be applied.  Hopefully I have cleared up a few things and now people have a better concept of how Freedom of Speech works.

This is not meant to be a personal attack on any one of the people here who have expressed opinions to the contrary; I welcome all different opinions so that I may have the privilege of agreeing or disagreeing with them.  This subject just happens to be one of the things in life that make me angry.  I cannot tell you how many times I have seen people misuse the term Freedom of Speech when their rights have not been violated in the slightest.  Then it makes me even more upset when I see other people agreeing with them, not knowing anything about what Freedom of Speech really means.  These people are allowed to vote, and this scares me.  Okay, time to end this before I start another rant! Ha ha! :)